INTERVIEW WITH
JIM HURST AND MISSY RAINES

by Kevin Russell, May 2002

KEVIN: How'd you get your a start in music? Do you come from a musical family?

JIM: Yeah, I do come from a musical family. My dad and my uncle played. We had our own Hurst family version of the Louvin Brothers. They weren't professionals but they could do it and they passed that music down to me and my brothers and my sisters. Although the sisters never learned how to play any instruments, the brothers and I did. And I took it and ran with it more than anybody else in the family. I played around the house a lot. I'd jam with my Dad and his friends that came by. It was mostly bluegrass stuff but after a while I got into Merle Travis, Chet Atkins and Jerry reed. And as time went on I got into Eric Clapton and Lonnie Mack, the Ventures.

KEVIN: You played electric guitar?

JIM: Yeah. I didn't really start electric till about 1965 or so. I was eleven at the time. I started on guitar when I was four. I'd play my Dad's guitar. I got my first guitar on Christmas after I turned four. I still have that guitar. An uncle bought that for me. It was a Sears Silvertone. It's a cool little guitar. As I grew up I played more rock and roll, Motown and the Beatles. Then I had my first band in sixth grade. We never got paid but we played for fun. A little later I started playing in real bands where I got paid. We'd play weddings and parties and corporate functions.

KEVIN: How about you, Missy?

MISSY: My grandmother gave us her piano when I was a young child. I began taking lessons at age 8, but I know I was fooling around with it long before that. I then switched to guitar. I think I really was inspired early on by such greats as Mac Wiseman and Lester Flatt. I wanted to be them. And they didn't play piano. My parents were going to more and more music shows and hanging out with folks who played music so I was around musicians all the time. My dad had been playing the washtub bass. Then one day he came home with a real bass. I'd never been around one up close and I was fascinated. I started playing it soon after. My mother never played any instrument but is a huge fan of all kinds of music. No one else in my immediate family played. My parents were both born in West Virginia and I am distantly related to Stony Cooper of Wilma Lee and Stoney Cooper fame.

KEVIN: Tell me about the transition from day jobs to being a professional.

MISSY: I graduated from high school and went directly into playing with bands. I have always been a full time musician but I have had to supplement my income through some pretty lean times by doing anything I could, waitressing, house cleaning, wallpapering, etc. Jobs that were flexible so I could maintain any gigs I had. It hasn't always been easy but I've been very, very fortunate to be able to do what I love all this time. I also have an incredible husband who is totally supportive of what I do. He believes in it as much if not more than me sometimes and we are committed to the choices we've made.

Because, really, it's a lifestyle choice. If you really want a lot of material things in your life then playing bluegrass may not be the best thing for you to choose to do. There is nothing wrong with having a big house and lots of things in it, it's just all about choices.

JIM: In 1978 I got married. That was the only time I stopped playing guitar. I put it down for about six weeks. But she knew I played and as we got to know each other better I picked it back up and haven't put it down since.

Then after driving a truck for sixty hours a week and playing on the weekends I started getting frustrated playing with people who didn't take it as seriously as I did. One day my wife said to me, "If you're going to really do this you need to go where everybody's as serious about it as you are." That's when we moved to Nashville.

I did a demo tape and on the strength of that I got signed to a three year deal with a record label. But ended up not doing anything with them really. I ran their studio; booked studio time and played back-up on some demos for a lot of their songwriters. They ended up owing me a lot of money. It was a real horror story but I learned a lot.

In 1990 I found out that Holly Dunn was having auditions for a guitar player. It was odd because I'd never auditioned for anybody before. At the audition they just played the songs and I played along with them. They liked what I did better than anybody else so I got the job. Ended up playing with Holly for two years. That was my first start in the Nashville music business. Then I heard about an opportunity to play with Trisha Yearwood. She was looking for someone to play guitar. So once again I auditioned. And I ended up working for her for about two years as well.

After that I worked in real estate for a while but then got a call from the McCarter Sisters and I ended working with them. As we were touring I got to know Keith Little who was working with the Ricky Skaggs band. He had been working with Claire Lynch on an album and when she started looking for a guitar player, Keith recommended me. So I got the job with Claire and worked with her for about six years. Then she and Larry decided to stop touring.

KEVIN: When you left Claire Lynch's band you didn't start a new band but instead began working as duet. How did this decision come about and why do a duet?

JIM: Well, Missy and I were trying to figure out what to do. We liked playing together and felt like we had a real comfortable thing. Sometimes you play with people and it goes well enough but sometimes you play with people who feel the same way and it's like riding in a Cadillac...you don't have to worry about anything. That's how it was with Missy and me. And being a duet gives you lots of room to play. I love playing in bands but I brought up the duet idea to Missy and she'd been thinking about something similar. Then the first time we got together it was such a blast! We were a little concerned in the beginning that we might not be accepted since we didn't have a fiddle or dobro or some other instrument. Our first public performance was January 1998.

MISSY: Having traveled together for several years with Claire, I think we knew we were road compatible and musically compatible. That kind of compatibility is not always there when you play music with folks. So, we started talking about what we would do after Claire got off the road and started realizing we both wanted to have our own thing. We realized our music directions were very similar and so we thought for about 5 seconds about who else would be in the band and then came quickly to the idea of just guitar and bass. We played some tunes together like that and discovered all this space! There was so much room to breath! We grooved immediately. At that point, we never looked back to making it more than a duo. I love playing in 4 or 5 piece bands for what they are but I love the duo for what it is. And I wouldn't want to change it. I don't see it as a setting where we don't have enough instruments but rather, I see it as a setting to do stuff that could only be done the way we do them. Also, by being our own bosses, we are free to explore other creative outlets as we choose.

KEVIN: One of the things I love about your CD, "Two", is that it does not fit neatly into any category. You've got folk, country, bluegrass, even jazz material on there. Not to mention the mix of vocals and instrumentals. Was that eclectic approach intentional or simply work out that way? What's the song selection process like for you guys?

JIM: Well, we didn't set out purposely trying to be eclectic. We just wanted to do a record that showcased what we could do vocally and instrumentally. We looked for songs we liked and narrowed it down from there. I know a lot of people talk about looking for material for their album. I've never had that problem. I've been fortunate that I've been able to find all kinds of material I really enjoyed. Of course you're always looking for the best songs you can find but when Missy and I made our list it wasn't hard to come up with stuff. In fact, we could easily have put another three or four songs on that album that we were just as stoked about as the ones we left on there. And actually we negotiated with Pinecastle so we could put fourteen songs on that CD. After all, it was our debut album.

MISSY: I don't think we set out to be eclectic, just to be eclectic. We just chose songs and instrumentals that touched us in some way or another. We then do the "duo" test to see if the tune works with just the two of us, and if it does, it becomes a candidate. Some tunes you just end up feeling like they need more or different instrumentation. I used to think of this as a limitation, but I've learned that there are so many songs out there that work with what we do that it's just a matter of finding them or writing them. We're working on a new album right now, and my biggest problem is narrowing down to the 6 slots I have!

I think we do give some thought about vocals versus instrumentals. We wanted to set a foot out there as vocalist. I was already known as a bassist, but I wanted to let people know I sang too. For me it was very new ground. It's funny, most of the music I listen to is instrumental, but I think vocals are extremely important.

KEVIN: Can we expect a new Jim and Missy CD anytime in the foreseeable future?

JIM: Yeah, you sure can. We're going through songs right now. We started last Friday working the songs and, man, they just came alive. So we think this is gonna be a good one! People seem to like what we do when we do what we like. And we try to be true to what we do musically. You know, the choice of material is important to us. Lyrics matter to us. We don't do songs about about murder or rape or child abuse or drug addiction. We don't want to do songs that promote any kind of violent behavior. The choice of material is important to us. It doesn't have to be Christian or even wholesome but it shouldn't be provocative.

KEVIN: So there won't be an acoustic punk Jim and Missy record coming out?

JIM: (Laughs) No! No spiked hair, no studs in the eyebrow, nothing like that. Not that there's anything wrong with that. It's just not our thing.

KEVIN: Missy, you've won the IBMA award four times now, is that right? How is that for you?

MISSY: Yes, this is my fourth award. I am extremely honored by this. The first time I won, I felt as though I was looking down on myself and watching it happen, I was so shocked. I had been nominated about eight times before actually winning, and although it sounds like a cliche, I felt on top of the world just being mentioned in the same breath as many of my heroes and colleagues.

The award means for me a great responsibility. I think about it every time I perform, I think, I really have to do the best I can because I'm representing something here. I've been honored by my peers and now I have to live up to this. I think about it too in how I carry myself personally. I don't take it lightly but I also don't believe that it means I'm the best, that's just laughable. It's supposed to be about recognition for a high standard of excellence for that year. I'll take that, but I don't believe there is a "best this or that". I believe that every one of the nominees (and many that weren't nominees) deserve this award and we're all different.

I know I have paid a lot of dues, and I do appreciate getting some recognition for that as well. I've spent a lot of time away from my family to do what I do, so it feels good to receive acknowdgement. And I believe the IBMA is a prestigious organization and it carries a lot of weight in the music world. So, I know our booking agent never fails to mention what we've won and I think it helps.

KEVIN: Jim, you won the IBMA award for guitarist of the year. Given that this is a field with many incredible players, how was that for you? What is it that you think may set you apart from other players? And how has winning the award effected or changed your career?

JIM: I don't know that it's really changed anything but I really enjoy that I'm the reigning Guitar Player of the Year, because other people said so. As far as the award is concerned there's no tangible evidence that it's helped my career. I'm recognized a little more in public but I don't know if that's because of the award or because I've been fortunate enough to have my picture on a few more posters or some people's albums. Since the award I know I feel better about what people think I'm doing. I enjoy what I do and I get to do it for a living so, for me, the blessings are multiple. And the recognition is enjoyable. I guess since the award I probably get a few more calls to do session work. But I can tell you this when that first ballot came out and my name was on the short list of people nominated for Guitar Player of the Year, that was a kick in the pants! There was Tony Rice and Doc Watson and several guitar players I greatly admire. Wow! I mean, Doc Watson is somebody I've listened to and admired for years.

In fact I've got a Doc Watson model Gallagher guitar because I heard him live and had to have one. Doc has been an influence for me for a long time, so to be mentioned on the same list as him for Guitar Player of the Year, when there are so many guitar players that could be on that list and deserve to be on that list as much or more than myself, well I can't tell you how much of an impact that had on me! I was nominated once before but, to be honest with you, I never dreamed I actually get it. Especially because I'm not the quintessental flatpicker. I'm more of a hybrid player. I'm not a Bryan Sutton or David Grier or Tim Stafford, or any of those guys who cut their teeth flatpicking bluegrass. I think I'm adequate at flatpicking but I think I'm a guitarist first and that flatpicking is only one of the ways I play guitar. I go back and forth between flatpicking and finger-style.

I try to enhance every song I play based on the groove, the melody and the type of song it is, rather than play a chain of notes together. I think that's what sets me apart from the "machine gunners" or "gun slingers" that play very fast and very clean - and there's nothing wrong with what they do, in fact they're very good at what they do. But rather than play a barrage of notes I try to work the melody.

That kind of playing will win you contests but I think for overall listening it's better to try and pull out the essence of the song. I'm not any better or any worse than anybody else but as I get older I notice that the sweetness and melody matters more to me. When I was twenty I wanted to play every note that Jerry Reed or Doc Watson or Tony Rice played, and I wanted to play fast. But I'm different now. And I think since I'm a hybrid I offer something that, maybe, other players don't.

KEVIN: It's like you're saying you want to find something that will support the Song, rather than simply fill it up with as many notes as you can.

JIM: That's right. I've done the fill-up thing. And I can do the fill-up thing but it's not very satisfying. You know, it's all in the ears of the beholder. But if somebody's doing a straight-ahead bluegrass album they're probably not going to call me. They'll call Bryan Sutton or Kenny Smith or Dave Grier or any number of guys who are brilliant, fast, clean and tasty. But if somebody wants something a little funkier they'll probably call me. I think we all have our advantages or different colors that people will want to use. And I have been called for a number of recordings for which I am grateful.

KEVIN: You've just released your second solo record, "Second Son", and it's a gorgeous piece of work. The first CD, "Open Window" seemed to have you out front a lot, whereas the new one has you more in a band context. JIM: Yeah, "Second Son" except for that last song is mostly flatpicking and I have a lot of friends and guests playing with me. My first record was a lot of solo or finger-style material. I wanted to do a bluegrass album but I do some finger-style in there too I guess. Like Earl used to do when he'd do the gospel stuff with Flatt. He'd play guitar with finger picks and that was absolutely killer! Don Reno did a similar thing. So there's been people out there that do things like that.

KEVIN: Missy, your solo cd, "My Place in the Sun" is also a great collection of music. There's some very fine bluegrass music on that CD but the real surprise is the superb jazz and swing stuff you do. This seems like a bold move for "bluegrass" bassist of the year. Were you worried how bluegrass audiences might receive this CD? How has it been received?

MISSY: I started recording that cd in 1996, 1997 and 1998. I would do one Tune, then not do anymore for a long while. It was released 2 days or so before I went to IBMA in 1998 and that was the first year I won Bass Player of the Year. I had no idea when I was recording that this would happen. So I never thought about the award at all, but I did wonder what people might think of some of the tunes on it. But there was no question about putting it on because I had been thinking about this material for way too long and it had to come out. It was a bit of scrapbook of my musical life to that point and it didn't matter if it didn't fit into any one's idea of what it should be. I would love to do a real straight traditional bluegrass album some day but not right now. "My Place" has been received really well in spite of it's jazz and blues. It actually was nominated as instrumental Album of the Year by IBMA in 1999. I've had numerous comments about the tunes the Bells of Norfolk, which really blows my mind! It's a very new-agey tune, we call it my Windham Hill cut, but it is a part of the kind of music I love, and bluegrassers come up and love it, go figure!

KEVIN: I know you've done some shows with Bill Evans (the banjo player) and Steve Smith. I was lucky enough to catch you guys in Seattle at the Tractor Tavern, and you were great together. Any plans to further tour or record with these guys? You were sounding a whole lot like a band when I heard you!

MISSY: We have all played on each other's solo cd's but there is no plan right now to record any thing as a quartet. I love playing with them, it's a real treat. Steve and Bill and I worked together in a band called Cloud Valley in 1981- 1984 in Charlottesville Virginia. That was my first real professional band experience. They taught me a lot! I cherish their friendship and there is nothing like a friendship that spans over 20 years.

JIM: No, no plans to record but I may end up playing with them again in the Jim Hurst band.

KEVIN: me about the Jim Hurst Band.

JIM: Well, it's a chameleon of sorts. I've got a core group of musicians I'm using for most of the dates I have booked as the Jim Hurst Band. Most of those musicians can't commit to me because I can only do a few dates. The bulk of my year is committed to the Jim and Missy dates. That'll be my primary musical existence but I'll fit in the Jim Hurst Band whenever I can. And Missy is starting work on her new solo CD, which means she'll be putting together the Missy Raines Band. Missy'll do some dates with my band but we're trying to keep some separation between the duet gigs and the band gigs.

So right now the Nashville version of the JHB is Michael McLain on mandolin. Casey Henry on banjo, Todd Cook on bass and Joel Whitinghill on fiddle. It's a five piece band and we're doing almost everything off of "Second Son", some stuff off "Open Window", a few things that aren't on either record, a couple of standards, and some new stuff. I don't want to be one of those bands that does five Monroe songs, four by Flatt and Scruggs and two by Mac Weisman, and that's it. Thats wonderful stuff, I love that music and I cherish it. It's part of my musical heritage but I also want to do original material and material not done by other bluegrass bands.

KEVIN: Will those same musicians come west with you for dates out here?

JIM: No, probably not. Mainly I can't afford to fly everybody out there. When I come out west Bill Evans and I will put something together. I'm not sure who we'll use but we'll use some west coast mandolin players. Steve Smith maybe or Eric Thompson.

KEVIN: Will the Jim Hurst Band do any bay area dates?

JIM: I think we're looking primarily at the Portland/Seattle area. It's all just in the planning stages right now. We've got to find a way to make it work schedule-wise. But I think we can.

KEVIN: Where do you go from here?

MISSY: We are working on another Hurst and Raines CD, Jim's new Bluegrass CD is out and he sometimes tours with that. It's a great CD with lots of guest artists on it. Our goal is to maintain the duo, establishing it as a mainstream act out there if we're lucky and also go after our individual pursuits like Jim's bluegrass band and my own band as well. Like Jim said, I am just starting to work on my next solo CD which I will tour with some in the future. Probably in 2003. Jim and I love what we do. I have no doubt in my mind that this was meant to be. It has been the best and most creative musical experience of my life.

KEVIN: So Bay area folks will have their opportunity to see you both when you come out in early August for a string of bay area dates, right?

JIM: Yeah. We're really looking forward to it. We've had such a great response from folks on the west coast. People have been very friendly and treated us well.

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